If you want to subjugate a people, you have to destroy their language, make them lose their respect for their culture.

This is not mine,

Indian Influence in Souh East Asia.
Greater India: The expansion of Indian culture and influence both in Central Asia and the South East towards the countries and islands of the Pacific is one of the momentous factors of world history.
(image source: A Survey of Indian History – By Sardar Kavalam Madhava Panikkar).

A gist of what Macaulay spoke in the British Parliament about the introduction of English as a medium of instruction in India.

We have people like Max Mueller who were planted by the Church to destroy the Sanatana Dharma from within.

Read my posts on these subjects.

Indian History, as I was taught some 45 years ago was thus.

There was Vedas ,ancient texts, they were concerned with Religion, many gods were worshiped,

There were Mythologies of Ramayana and Mahabharata, Rama and Krishna  who were worshiped as Gods.

The Vedas and Puranas were oppressive.

Then Buddha came along.

Aryans invaded through the Khyber Pass.

Alexander Invasion of India, he defeated Indian Kings and signed a treaty with Porus, forgiving him.

Appointed Seleucus.

Then there was Chandra Gupta Maurya and His dynasty.

It goes on up to Harshavardhana.

There is a gap of about 200 to 300 years.

Then Kanishka.

Later Mughals and the British.

What is wrong with this?

1.Vedas have been brushed as Religious texts, with no details about the high scientific and technical skills they possessed.

2.No mention of the Vedic empires.

3.There is a gap of about 300 years between Panini and Daruis.

4.No mention of the Tamil and Southern Kingdoms which existed around the early Vedic age.

5.Ramayana and Mahabharata were facts and not Fables, while Bible ,Christianity, Islam and the prophet were given the status of History.

6.No mention of Sanskrit and Tamil, the two earliest languages of civilization.

7.While there is mention of Alberoni, Fahien, Huansuang, there is no mention of courtiers sent from India abroad.

8.Again there is a gap of about 200 years from Fahien in 400 AD to 600 AD when Harshavardhana came to power.

9.From 800 AD to 1500 AD no mention of Indian History in detail regarding the South Indian Kings and their empires.

10.No mention of Indian empire having been extended to South Asia during the entire History of India excepting bland statements that Indians had commercial contacts with Rome, and Some Tamil Kings conquered some portions of Indonesia,.

11.No mention of the great Floods in Souh India which triggered off migration to Europe ans rest of the world from India.

And that was how the early settlements in these areas began

12.Ashoka is reported to be first King to have established contacts with Sri Lanka by sending his daughter/son, omitting the Tamil connection which was earlier by about 1000 years.

I am providing information which is slightly better than what we were taught from the link I have provided below.

The gaps in the improved version is also glaring.

Less said about the western scholarship(?) the better.

I shall be writing on the hidden History of India with evidence for these periods.

Two technics were adopted in burying our culture.

One is suppression of Facts and evidence, as in archeological finds and Tamil History.

Second is wilful misinterpretation of facts as Max Mueller did.

Readers may contribute with evidence.

”

• 1700 BC – Late Harappan and Early Vedic period coincide
• 1300 BC – The end of Cemetery H culture
• 1000 BC – Iron Age of India

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There is a school of Thought which considers that Lord Shiva was a Human being and He composed poems in Tamil.

I am looking into the legend and verify whether there is any truth in this.

This may sound ludicrous for rationalists.

The point is that I do not consider me to be super intelligent,right and correct at all times and others ,especially my ancestors were fools to believe anything,spend time and money to build huge marvelous temples.

I have , in my Life ,seen many things which defy my Logic.

They make/made sense as I grew.

Hence I do not dismiss anything offhand by sheer arrogance.

The open approach has yielded good dividends in History in that it has brought to light many truths so far hidden because self-importance and intellectual arrogance.

At the same time I do not belive or trust anything which is not supported by internal and external evidence.

The proof of my labors lies in my posts in this blog.

As to Shiva, I have noticed a lot of curious facts between Shiva in the South and the North, though they are the same.

The Avatars of Shiva in the South were not reported in the North.

Shiva as a family man with children is not as popular in the North as in the South.

Mostly the legends of Siva in the North revolve around only the marriage of Shiva with Uma, and incidents connected with it, while in the South the information is more detailed and Shiva has been portrayed as lending a helping hand to people in distress.

His avatars are different from the Avatars of Vishnu in that while Vishnu stayed in a womb Shiva is described as one who does not stay in the womb, Ayonija'; Tamil calls Him as  Unborn Eldest, ‘Pirava Yaakaip Periyon’.

Yet He appears in a Flash , helps people in distress and disappears.

Sixty four of his Avatars of this nature are recorded in Tamil literature, all in the City of Madurai.

He is reported to have married a Pandyan Princess Meenakshi in the form of Chokkanatha.

Madurai Meenakshi Amman Temple is dedicated to Meenakshi and Shiva as Chokkanatha/Sundareswara.

These sixty-four avatars have not been recorded in any north Indian legends though some of them are hinted in Puranas, especially in Linga and Bhagavatha Purana.

In one of these Avatars Lord Shiva composed a Poem in Tamil.

This is it with meaning.

This appears as the second poem in Kurunthogai, a Sangam Literature.

The author is given as Iraiyanar, a Name for Shiva.

‘

I have written quite a few posts describing the approach Of Hinduism towards God.

God  as The Reality, on the one hand is treated as A principle without Attributes, on the other it reveals God is closer to Man if  one approaches Him with Devotion,Love.

Lord Krishna declares in the Bhagavad Gita that He would appear to the Devotee in the Form He wishes and prays and Grant him His wishes in the Form of the God He worships.

And in the Path of Devotion in Hinduism, God , can and was approached in the Form of a Relative,

Mother,Father,Son,Child,Friend……..in as many as forms as there are relationships.

God has also been approached as a Lover!

And He responded!

There is yet another instance that many, who do not know Tamil, may be unaware of.

That Sundarar, a Devotee of Lord Shiva, asked the Lord to go and mediate on behalf him to his paramour!

And The Lord obliged!

Shiva had earlier  stopped Sunadarar’s marriage claiming that Sundara was Shiva’s Slave, as per the document executed by Sundarar’s ancestor and Shiva had documents to support it!

And in a Court, Panchayat, Shiva proved it.

During the course of the altercation on this issue, Sundara called Shiva as a Lunatic.Pitha(Tamil)

Later when Shiva asked Sundarar to compose Hymns on Him(after Sundarar realized the Man who visited him was none other than Shiva), Sundarar was at a loss and asked the Lord ‘

‘How can I sing on You, The Lord,whom I called as a Lunatic’

Shiva replied,

Start with the term thou have addressed Me, Pitha, Lunatic’, the first song of his Thevaram, the songs in praise of Shiva.

Sundarar composed.

‘

He did ans He will.

I shall narrate that later.

Tiruvennainallur Temple, where Shiva revealed Himself to Sundarar  -Basic information.

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It is the practice of brahmin households to prohibit people from saying words that are inauspicious.

To drive home this point, it is said that there are Asthu Devatas who say’Asthu’ (May It Be”, and the inauspicious things might take place.

Yatha Bhaavo That Bhavathi,

As your dispositions, so are the Happenings.

Lord Krishna , while talking about Satva, Rajas and Tamo Gunas in the Bhagavad Gita observes that one becomes what one eats and what he thinks.

Indian culture and Religion repeatedly emphasize the concurrence of Thought and deed.

In one place, Krishna states that to attract the sin of Killing one need not commit the Murder, the very thought would do!

So one is advised to think , speak and do good.

On the Philosophical side, Savitri is the Stage when the thoughts remain as thoughts on the verge of becoming words.

Once Sarasvati touches it, the thoughts become words.

Please read my Post.

The primordial sound is Pranava, the First Cause, Brahman is Attributed with it.

One has to be careful in what he/she utters.

Words become very powerful in the hands of a Master craftsman like Kalidasa or a Spiritual Leader Liked Swami Vivekananda.

His famous quote,

Kalidasa,Sanskrit Poet.

‘Arise, Awake, Stop not ‘

became powerful and ushered in resurgence.

Ordinary words, but when uttered by a spiritual man, they become powerful.

Let me narrate, quote two incidents from Indian History.

For me things handed down by my ancestors is History.

Not what others write from another country.

I shall not use the term Folk lore as this term now is considered to be a pack of lies or result of Imagination.

In the cases I am about to mention these verses are in tact even today.

As to their application the original authors must rise from the Dead.

Kalidasa and Bhoja(Bhoja is considered to be Vikramadhitya and there is a controversy on this ‘I shall be writing on this.

‘The king knew well the talent of Kalidasa as a poet especially the innumerable ways of bringing simile in his poems. He developed a strange interest, knew not why, but he desired Kalidasa to sing the last song for him before he died. Normally the ‘ charama sloka’ is sung only after a person is dead. Kalidasa, therefore made it clear to the king that as he was blessed by Kali Devi if he sang the song, the king ‘s life would come to an end immediately. Bhoja raja got angry with Kalidasa for disobeying his order and banished him from the capital of ‘ Tara’.

Kalidasa wandered in the city of Tara in the disguise of a hermit . But the King could not get over his strange wish. He launched a search to find Kalidasa’s whereabouts and for this purpose he disguised himself as a ‘ Sooth Sayer ‘ . The king spotted the sanyasi near a mutton shop and to make sure that he was none other than Kalidasa he enquired him, ” You are a Sanyasi, how come you are seen near a mutton shop , Is it not unbecoming of a true sanyasi?”

Kalidasa, impulsively reacted to the remarks of thr Sooth Sayer but unfortunately let the cat out of the bag by saying, ” Where else a person can go after his banishment by the king?”. On hearing this, the king became sure that he was Kalidasa only. The King decided to play a strategy to make Kalidasa to sing the last song for him. He continued the conversation with Kalidasa.

In due course Kalidasa also enquired the Sooth Sayer where from he hailed. The Sooth Sayer replied ” Tara” .

Kalidasa with genuine interest in the welfare of King Bhoj enquired him for the news of Tara and whether the King Bhoj was keeping sound health. The Sooth Sayer replied ,” Oh, what a calamity, Bhoj King is dead as he was unable to bear the separation from his best friend and poet Kalidasa”. Kalidasa was shattered to hear the sad news about his friend and with great grief sang the ‘ charama sloka’ in praise of the departed soul!!

” ATHYA TARA NIRATARA NIRALAMBA SARASWATHI;
PANDITHAHA KANDITHA SARVE BHOJRAJA DIVAM GATHE ”
( meaning :- The Kingdom of Tara is now deserted due to the demise of Bhoj Raj. The learned poets would get punished anywhere now as Goddess Saraswathi has lost the grip and interest.)
The moment Kalidasa sang the charama sloka, the King in thedisguise of the’ Sooth Sayer ‘ fell down on the ground and died. Kalidasa was quick to realise that it was none other than his best friend and the King himself who acted as the Sooth Sayer to hear the charama sloka from him.

Kalidasa prayed to Kali Devi to spare his friend by singing the same sloka to give the opposite meaning:-

” ATYA TARA SADHA TARA SADALAMBA SARASWATHY
PANDITHA MANDITHA SARVE BHOJ RAJA DIVAM GATHE ”

Kali Devi was moved by Kalidasa’s poetry and gave a new lease of life to the King but restricted it to a time of 3.75 Nazhi. ( a very short time only)

Kalidasa embraced the King and told about the short life at his disposal. King Bhoj urged to compose Kalidasa an epic and Bhoj also joined him to make it.The kavya is well-known as” Bhoj Sambu ” ..

Nandhi Kalambakam, Tamil.

King Parameshwara Varma, A Pallava, from Kanchipuram died leaving his second wife and her three children uncared for.

They were driven out by the new King,.

Those driven out vowed that they would regain the Kingdom.

While the two elder brothers chose to fight it out, Nandi varman was advised that he could kill the King by Tamil Poem!

he chose this option and became a scholar in Tamil.

His fame reached the King.

He , in the meanwhile lost interest in Kingdom and was totally devoted to Tamil saying that after learning Tamil deeply, these worldly things did not matter and he would pursue Tamil full-time.

The King called for him and asked him to sing a series of songs on him in the kalambakam format.

This format is a special one.

I shall Post separately.

Nadhivarma informed his brother that his rendering of the 100 poems in kalambakam Format would kill the king.

The King replied that if by his death, Tamil would gain such a gem of a Poem, he was willing to die.

So hundred Pandals, Shamianas were erected , 99 were empty and the last one had he King seated.

As Nandhi Kalambakam by Nadhivarma was in progress, the Pandals caught fire, and turned into ashes at the end of each Poem

When the last Poem was sung, the King and the last Pandal caught fire and the King died.

This is the Poem.

‘
வானுறு மதியை அடைந்ததுன் வதனம்
மறிகடல் புகுந்ததுன் கீர்த்தி
கானுறு புலியை அடைந்ததுன் வீரம்
கற்பகம் அடைந்ததுன் கரங்கள்
தேனுறு மலராள் அரியிடம் புகுந்தாள்
செந்தழல் அடைந்ததுன் தேகம்
நானும் என்கலியும் எவ்விடம் புகுவேம்
நந்தியே நந்தயா பரனே.

Rough Translation.

Your Face become the Moon.

Fame, the Ocean.

Valour, the Tiger,

Hands the Karpaga vruksha, (that gives what ver one wises for),

Wealth Lakshmi Reached Hari(Vishnu)

Where would we go,,Me and My Tamil”

To conclude that this is quite possible let me narrate an incident from the Great Tamil Poet  Kannadasan’s Life.

( I had the honor of knowing him personally)

When Nehru died , he write an eulogy on him in Tamil weekly Kumudam( The magazine is being published even now)

The next day, his perfectly healthy grand child died.

Kannadasan said that even while writing the verse I knew that this poem consisted Aram.

Aram means, in this context, certain words though unintended might harm.

The general meaning of Aram is Dharma.

I would never write an eulogy in future.

He followed this.

People may be aware that the legendary TMS, TM Soundararajan of Tamil Film industry lost his market after singing a song reluctantly in T.Rajendar’s ‘OruThalai Ragam..

Such is he power of language!

Readers from other languages may share similar news involving the language.

http://www.chennailibrary.com/mis/nandhikalambagam.html

I have written on the intimate level in which God is held in Hinduism.

We have many legends historical facts to back this up.

Sanskrit literature abounds in narrating these instances and , if one is of the right disposition, shall bring tears .

Andal, Srivilliputtur

When Tamil takes position on this?

The result is exquisite.

There are many who have treated God as a Lover, Meera an example.

Andal, an Azhwar by her own right steals the show in this lover role Nayaka Nayaki Bhava.

Her yearning for Vishnu, Krishna is something ephemeral and would melt one’s heart without being erotic.

Tamil calls the satisfaction  in culmination, consummation of Love as pleasure of the Lowest Order while Realizing Reality or communon with God as ecstasy or Bliss.

The former is called as Chirinbam(சிற்றின்பம்)

The latter as Perinbam ( பேரின்பம் )

Andal of Srivilliputhur has composed many exquisite poems and her father Vishnuchitta, Periyaazhvar in One who Blessed even Vishnu!

Of most importance is Andal’s Thiruppavai(which incidentally is being celebrated as a function in  South east Asia), thirty poems oozing Bhakthi and Love for Vishnu, Krishna.

There are such utterances my Andal that bespeaks of her ardent Love.

She has the Love and audacity (?) to call Krishna/ Vishnu as one who was immersed with his wife Nappinnai and instead of asking him to disengage himself, Andal exhorts Nappinnai, Krishna’s wife?

This Poem is recited twice when reciting Thiruppavai (Vagak kadla Kadaintha is also recited twice?

The meaning of the words/sentence in Italics convey more than what has been translated.

I am sure my readers can understand.

Tell me, which religion, or Devotee has the courage and conviction to address as Such?

By the way this is yet another Proof that Lord Krishna married the Pandyan Princess Nappinnai.

Please read my post on this.

Rangamannar in the lap of Andal.

20.முப்பத்து மூவர் அமரர்க்கு முன்சென்று

கப்பம் தவிர்க்கும் கலியே! துயிலெழாய்;

செப்பம் உடையாய்! திறலுடையாய்! செற்றார்க்கு

வெப்பம் கொடுக்கும் விமலா! துயிலெழாய்;

செப்பன்ன மென்முலை செவ்வாய் சிறுமருங்குல்

நப்பின்னை நங்காய்! திருவே! துயிலெழாய்;

உக்கமும் தட்டொளியும் தந்துஉன் மணாளனை

இப்போதே எம்மை நீராட்டேலோ ரெம்பாவாய்.

Translation   By Dr. V.K.S.N. Raghavan

Oh Valiant Lord , who removes the tremblings of the thirty three (crores of) gods , by going to battles (on their behalf) and by being in front of them (in such battles)! Kindly awaken from sleep .Oh Lord , who cares about our protection , and is fully equipped with enormous strength and valour ! Oh Lord , blemishless and pure, and the One who defeats with vigour Your enemies ! Kindly awaken. (now turning to His consort, Nappinnai ) Oh the great Lady Nappinnai , possessing a charming physique –with a jar-shaped soft bosom , enchanting rosy lips and slim waist! Oh the embodiment of Goddess Lakshmi! Be pleased to rise up. May You give us a fan , a mirror and Your Lord as well , and at this time itself , may You help us to take our (ceremonial) bath .

muppaththu  mUvar  amararkku                 mun cenRu *
Thirty      three  immortals (gods) (He who) goes to

kappam         thavirkkum            kaliyE                  thuyilezhaay *
fears (theirs) removes    (You That) heroic one (please) wake up .

ceppam  utaiyaay thiRal      utaiyaay * ceRRaarkku
Perfect one      omni-potent one        enemies (He who)

veppam   kotukkum                vimalaa           thuyilezhaay *
burn(s)  gives (up) , (You That) Lord (please) wake up .

ceppenna               men  mulaic  cev vaayc ciRu    maruNGkul *
Like a perfect vessel  soft breasts red lips  slender waist

nappinnai                            naNGkaay thiruvE            thuyilezhaay *
(You) nappinnai (The Lord's consort) lady     beautiful (please) wake up .

ukkamum    thattoLiyum than^thu                           un   maNaaLanai *
Fan (and)  mirror      give (to us) (please also wake up) your husband (The Lord)

ippOthE        emmai       nIraattu
right now (so) us (we can) bathe .

El                                Or empaavaay
Come (Let us do) (the penance of) paavai nOmbu
Citation.
http://www.ibiblio.org/sripedia/ebooks/tpv/vstp20.html

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India, we all know, is a land of diversity.

Look at the number of languages.

It is curiousthat we have taken English and French into our fold!

Agaria,

Ahirani,

Aimol,

Aiton,

Anal,

Andamanese,

Some Languages of India, Scripts.

Angani,

Angika,

Ao,

Apatani,

Arabic,

Armenian,

Ashing,

Assamese,

Asuri,

Awadhi,

Badaga,

Baghelkhandi,

Bagri,

Baigani,

Bajania,

Balti,

Bangni,

Banjari,

Basturia,

Bauria,

Bawm,

Boli,

Bengali,

Bhanja- bhumia,

Bantu,

Bharmauri,

Bhairi,

Bhili,

Bhojpuri,

Bhotia,

Bhuiya,

Bhumij,

Bhunjia,

Biate,

Bilaspuri,

Birhor,

Birjia,

Bishnupriya,

Bodo,

Bokar,

Bondo,

bori,

Braj Bhasha,

Brijlal,

Bugun,

Bundelkhandi,

Burmese,

Bushari,

Chakhesang,

Chakma,

Chambilai,

Chameali,

Chang,

Changpa,

Chattisgarhi,

Chikari,

Chinali,

Chiru,

Chote,

Churasi,

Dalu,

Deori,

Dhanki,

Dhimal,

Dhodia,

Dhundhari,

Didayi,

Dimasa,

Dingal,

Dogri,

Dommari,

Droskhat/Dokpa,

Duhlian-Twang,

English, French, Gadaba, Gadiali, Gallong, Gameti, Gamit, Gangte, Garasia, Garhwali, Garo, Giarahi, Gondi, Gujarati, Gujjari, Gurung, Gutob, Hajong, Halam, Halbi, Harauti, Haryanavi, Hebrew, Himachali, Hindi, Hinduri, Hindusthani, Hmar, Ho, Hrusso, Hualngo,Irula, Jabalpuri, Jangali, Jarawa, Jaunsari, Juang, Kabui, Kachanga, Kachari, Kachchi, Kadar, Kagati, Kakbarak, Kanashi, Kangri, Kannada, Karbi, Karen, Karko, Kashmiri, Kathiawari, Khadiboli, Khaka, Khamba, Khampa, Khampti, Khampti-shan, Kharia, Khasi, Khaskura, Khatri, Kherwari, Khiangan, Khorusti, Khotta, Kinnauri, Kiradi, Kisan, Koch, Kodagu, Koi, Koireng, Kokni, Kolami, Kom, Komkar, Konda, Konicha, Konkani, Konyak, Koracha, Koraga, Korava, Korku, Korwa, Kota, Kotwalia, Kudmali, Kui, Kuki, Kulvi, Kumaoni, Kunbi, Kurukh, Kuvi, Ladakhi, Lahauli, Laihawlh, Lakher (Mara), Lalung,Lambani, Lamgang, Laotian, Laria, Lepcha, Limbu, Lisu, Lodha, Lotha, Lushai, Mag, Magahi, Magarkura, Mahal, Maithili, Majhi, Makrani, Malankudi, Malayalam, Malhar, Malto, Malvi, Manchat, Mandiali, Mangari, Mao, Maram, Marathi, Maria, Maring, Marwari, Mavchi, Meitei, Memba, Mewari, Mewati, Milang, Minyong, Miri, Mishing, Mishmi, Mizo, Monpa, Monsang, Moyon, Muduga, Multani, Mundari, Na, Nagari, Nagpuri, Naikadi, Naiki, Nati, Nepali, Nicobarese, Nimari, Nishi, Nocte, Odki, Onge, Oriya, Padam, Pahari, Paharia, Palilibo, Paite, Panchpargania, Pang, Pangi, Pangwali, Parimu, Parji, Paschima, Pasi, Pashto, Pawri, Pengo, Persian, Phom, Pochury, Punchi, Punjabi, Rai (Raikhura), Rajasthani, Ralte, Ramo, Rathi, Rengma, Riang, Sadri, Sajalong, Sambalpuri, Sangtam, Sansi, Santali, Sadra, Saraji, Sarhodi, Saurashtri, Sema, Sentinelese, Shekhawati, Sherdukpen, Sherpa, Shimong, Shina, Shompen, Sikligar, Sindhi, Singpo, Siraji, Sirmauri, Soliga, Sulung, Surajpuri,Tagin, Tai, Tamang, Tamil,Tangam, Tangkhul, Tangsa, Tataotrong, Telugu, Thado, Thar, Tharu, Tibetan, Toda, Toto, Tulu, Urdu, Vaiphei, Varli, Wagri, Wancho, Yereva, Yerukula, Yimchungre, Zakring (Meyer), Zeliang, Zemi, Zou.

The following information is derived from DM Silveira‘s INDIA BOOK 1994-95, page 61, ISBN 81-900218-2-6 published by Classic Publishers Pvt. Ltd., Goa, India.

The original author of this was Mr. Gurnek Singh

http://www.sanyal.com/india/indlang.html

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When one tries to trace the real history of India, one has to tread carefully and doubly careful in the use of terms about the various ancient Kingdoms and languages of India.

Unlike the other countries of the world our history goes back to Millions of years.

Sathavahana Dynasty LLocation. Image credit. “SatavahanaMap”. Licensed under Public Domain via Commons – https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:SatavahanaMap.jpg#/media/File:SatavahanaMap.jpg

While unravelling them,based on Archeology, references in the Indian Epics,Puranas and Indian literature, one finds it nearly impossible to determine which preced the other, say for instance Tami or Kannada.

I have, in my article, Karnataka 2 Million years Old Rama’s Brother in law in Karnataka, I had inadvertently slipped a word that,

‘before the advent of the Sathavahanas, Karnataka was ruled by North Indian Kings and Tamil Kings”

I received a comment,, which I am reproducing below.

“Well Mr. Ramanan, with due regards to your article, there is no history to suggest that Karnataka was ruled by Tamil rulers, before Satavahanas. Although the two languages owe a lot to Brahmi script and according to latest findings, Kannada speaking population was widely spread in south, central, and deccan India. Professor Iravatham mahadevan’s recent findings show that Tamil borrowed from old Kannada and not the other way round.
The impact of kingdoms of Karnataka origin have been felt over other parts of India also. The Chindaka Nagas of central India, Gangas of Kalinga (Odisha),[1] Rashtrakutas of Manyakheta,[2] Chalukyas of Vengi,[3] Yadava Dynasty of Devagiri were all of Kannada origin[4] who later took to encouraging local languages. The Senas of Bengal, the Solankis of Gujarat etc.’

In such a situation, I should have simple left saying nothing at all.

For the atmosphere in India has been so vitiated on the basis of langauge and territories that even a slight mention, raises one’s hackles.

The Divide and Rule Policy started by the British about 300 years ago still lingers , currently being fueled by the politicians who have no idea of our Past History and our traditions.

Having written about the early histories of Tamil in detail and a couple of Posts on the antiquity of Kannada,I would like to tread carefully, though evidence is available on these subjects.

When I take up the ancient history of the other areas, bengal, Maharashtra, Gujarat, Central India, there might me surprises in store.

I will be refrained in my choice of description as my site might be used to wrangle over which langauge or Kings were  more ancient.

The purpose of my Blog is to bring out the history and achievements of Sanatana Dharma, which has been distorted and misinformation had been spread about it.

By writing on the subjects I have mentioned here, I might be sidetracked.

One thing is certain.

We have a hoary past with Sanskrit and Sanatana Dharma as the Pillars.

Other languages like Tamil, Kannada have a hand in it, not to forget Telugu,the Godavari Valley has a rich ,ancient History.

While much evidence has been found on Tamil, about its antiquity relatively it is less in the other languages.

Another point is that the Tamil Kingdom was located in Lemuria.

They seem to have developed a culture on their own, they were also followers of Sanatana Dharma.

History of Karanataka and Tamil are gleaned only from respective literaray works of these languages.

For Karnataka, the past before Chandra Gupta Maurya is hazy, while Tamil has literary references in the form of Sangam literature.

Karnataka was not called as such, thanks to linguistic division of states, and it was under the Mauryan Empire.

And Chanra Gupra Mauraya breathed his last near Sravanabelagola in 230 BC.

However after the death of Chandra Gupta, Karnataka resisted the Mauryan domination.

The Tamils were allies of Chandra Gupta .

The Sathavahanas , the first recorded Dynasty,rose after Chandra Gupta.

Interesting point is that the Sathavahanas were ruling from Amravathi, , AP, now Capital of Andhra!

‘The Sātavāhana Empire was an Indian dynasty based from Dharanikota and Amaravati in Andhra Pradesh as well as Junnar(Pune) and Prathisthan (Paithan) in Maharashtra.The territory of the empire covered much of India from 230 BCE onward. Although there is some controversy about when the dynasty came to an end, the most liberal estimates suggest that it lasted about 450 years, until around 220 CE. The Satavahanas are credited for establishing peace in the country, resisting the onslaught of foreigners after the decline of the Mauryan Empire.’

The Sātavāhanas were vassals to the Mauryan dynasty until the decline of the latter. They are known for their patronage ofHinduism. The Sātavāhanas were early issuers of Indian state coinage struck with images of their rulers. They formed a cultural bridge and played a vital role in trade and the transfer of ideas and culture to and from the Indo-Gangetic Plain to the southern tip of India.

They had to compete with the Shungas and then the Kanvas of Magadha to establish their rule. Later, they played a crucial role to protect a huge part of India against foreign invaders like the Sakas, Yavanas and Pahlavas. In particular their struggles with theWestern Kshatrapas went on for a long time. The great rulers of the Satavahana Dynasty Gautamiputra Satakarni and Sri Yajna Sātakarni were able to defeat the foreign invaders like the Western Kshatrapas and stop their expansion. In the 3rd century CE the empire was split into smaller states. According to ancient Sangam literature the Satavahana rulers were allied with the Tamilrulers of the Chera dynasty, Chola dynasty and Pandyan Dynasty to defeat the foreign invaders like the Scythians…

‘The name Karnataka is derived from “Karunadu” which means Loftyland (High plateau), derived from the community’s location on the Deccan Plain. The name can also mean “Land of black soil” (Kari – Black; Nadu – Area or Region) in Kannada. The history of Karnataka goes back to epics “Ramayana” and “Mahabharatha”. The capital of “vaali” and “Sugriva” of the epic, Ramayana, is said to be Hampi. Karnataka finds its mention in Mahabharatha in the form of “Karnata Desha”. In olden times the region was also called “Kuntala Rajya”.^[1] Karnataka was also part of the Dakshinapatha (southern region) which finds its mention in many Indian epics. Vatapi, associated with sage Agastya is obviously Badami in Bijapur district.^[2] Karnataka is situated on the western edge of theDeccan plateau and has for its neighbours Maharashtra and Goa on the north, Andhra Pradesh on east, Tamil Nadu and Kerala on the south. On the west it opens out on the Arabian sea.’

In the case of Tamils, Tamil Kings were referred to during the Damayanthi Swayamvara, Sita and Draupadi Swayamvara apart from the fact that Lord Krishna married  Pandyan Princess, had a daughter Pandiah, Parashuarama, Arjuna and Sahadeva had been visiting Tamil areas.

Lord Krishna was an attendee to the Tamil Sangam.

Please refer my post on these subjects.

‘The Pandyas were one of the three ancient Tamil dynasties (Chola and Chera being the other two) who ruled the Tamil country from pre-historic times until the end of the 15th century. They ruled initially from Korkai, a sea port on the southernmost tip of the Indian peninsula, and in later times moved to Madurai. Pandyas are mentioned inSangam Literature (c. 100 – 200 CE) as well as by Greek and Roman sources during this period.

Archeological finds.

A Million year old site belonging to advanced Tamil Civilization has been found in Chennai.

We also have a ver ancient site belonging to Prehistoric times in Karnataka.

And we have the Tamil Brahmi script found in Harappa. and Indus Valley.

‘Kaar Nadu means…Kaar, in Tamil, means regions rich with rainfall collecting mountains and associated regions and Nadu means country…Tamil word is used to refer a region with a particular geographic location…I have asked to my Kannada friends to find the meaning in Kannada language – they have few explanations which are vague for example, some Kannada language speakers think Kar (black) coloured soil region is referred as Kaarnataka – if that is true Karnataka should be less than 20% of the land it has now, because only 15% of the region has black soil in the pesent day state of Karnataka. In ancient Tamil kingdoms the land and the people were classified based on Geography that relate to their specific rich lifestyle and occupation. There are several ancient Tamil literature referring to Tulu naadu, kodagu nadu and kaaarnadu.
The discovery of a Neolithic stone celt, a hand-held axe, with the Indus script on it at Sembian-Kandiyur in Tamil Nadu is, according to Iravatham Mahadevan, “a major discovery because for the first time a text in the Indus script has been found in the State on a datable artefact, which is a polished neolithic celt.” He added: “This confirms that the Neolithic people of Tamil Nadu shared the same language family of the Harappan group, which can only be Dravidian. The discovery provides the first evidence that the Neolithic people of the Tamil country spoke a Dravidian language.” Mr. Mahadevan, an eminent expert on the subject, estimated the date of the artefact with the Indus script between 2000 B.C. and 1500 B.C’

• A broken storage jar with inscriptions in Tamil Brahmi script in Quseir-al-Qadim, (Leukos Limen) Egypt, 1st century BCE. Two earlier Tamil Brahmi inscription discoveries at the same site, 1st century CE.]The inscriped text is “பானை ஒறி” (paanai oRi) which means ‘pot suspended in a rope net’.
• An inscribed amphora fragment in Tamil at the ancient Ptolemic–Roman settlement of Berenice Troglodytica, Egypt, 1st century BCE- 1st century CE.
• Tamil-Brahmi inscription on pottery found in Phu Khao Thong,Thailand, 2nd century CE. Touchstone (uraikal) engraved in Tamil in the Tamil-Brahmi script at Khuan Luk Pat, 3rd-4th century CE.
• Potsherds with Tamil Brahmi inscriptions found in Poonagari, Jaffna, 2nd century BCE.
• Black and red ware potsherd with Tamil Brahmi inscriptions in Ucchapanai, Kandarodai, Jaffna, 3rd century BCE.
• Tamil Brahmi inscriptions on a pot rim at Pattanam, central Kerala, 2nd century CE.
• Four Tamil-Brahmi inscriptions, 3rd century CE, found on Edakal cave, Ambukuthi hill, Kerala. One contained the word ‘Chera’ (‘kadummipudha chera’), the earliest inscriptional evidence of the dynasty Chera.
• Potsherd with Tamil-Brahmi script found in Oman. The script reads “nantai kiran” and it can be dated to the 1st century CE.
• A fragment of black and red ware flat dish inscribed in Tamil in theTamil Brahmi script excavated at the earliest layer in southern eastern town of Tissamaharama in Sri Lanka. It is dated to approximately 200 BC by German scholars who undertook the excavation.
• Tamil Brahmi script dating to 500 BC found at Kodumanal, Chennimalai near Erode
• Tamil-Brahmi script dating to 500 BC found at Porunthal site is located 12 km South West of Palani
• Tamil-Brahmi script found on Tirupparankundram hill, Madurai it read as “Muu-na-ka-ra” and “Muu-ca-ka-ti, 1st century BCE.
• Fifth ‘hero’ stone found with Tamil Brahmi inscriptions at Porpanakkottai
• Tamil-Brahmi script dating back to the 3rd century BCE near Thenur, Madurai. Script is written in gold bar.
• Tamil-Brahmi script dated to the 3rd century AD found preserved in laterite in Karadukka in Kasaragod district, Kerala

Which is Old, Kannada or Tamil

Pre-old Kannada (or Purava HaleGannada) was the language of Banavasi in the early Common Era, theSatavahana and Kadamba periods and hence has a history of over 2000 years.The Ashoka rock edict found at Brahmagiri (dated to 230 BC) has been suggested to contain words in identifiable Kannada.

A possibly more definite reference to Kannada is found in the ‘Charition mime’ of the 1st or 2nd century AD. The farce, written by an unknown author was discovered in the early 20th century at Oxyrynchus in Egypt. The play is concerned with a Greek lady named Charition who has been stranded on the coast of a country bordering the Indian Ocean. The king of this region, and his countrymen, sometimes use their own language, and the sentences they spoke include Koncha madhu patrakke haki (lit having poured a little wine into the cup separately) and paanam beretti katti madhuvam ber ettuvenu (lit having taken up the cup separately and having covered it, I shall take wine separately). The language employed in the papyrus indicates that the play is set in one of the numerous small ports on the western coast of India, between Karwar andMangalore’

• 150,000-100,000 BCE – Evidence for presence of Hominins with Acheulean technology in north Tamil Nadu.
• c. 30,000 BCE-Paleolithic industries in north Tamil Nadu
• c. 8000–3000 BCE-Pre-pottery microlithic industries
• c. 3000–1000 BCE-Neolithic and fine microlithic industries

Pre-Sangam period

• c. 1000–300 BCE-Megalithic age
• c. 600 BCE-Tamil-Brahmi prevalent as the Tamil script
• c. 300 BCE- Greek ethnographer Megasthenes visits Pandyan capitol Madurai.,
• c. 250 BCE-Asoka’s inscription recording the four kingdoms (Chera, Cholas, Pandya and Satyaputra) of the ancient Tamil country
• c. 200 BCE-Elara, a Tamil prince and contemporary of Dutte Gamini, rules Lanka

Sangam age

• c. 200 BCE-200 CE-Sangam age during which books of Sangam Literature are created
• c. 150 BCE-Kharavela of Kalinga records his conquest of a federation of Tamil kings in his Hathigumpha inscription ^[10]
• c. 13– Greek historian Nicolaus of Damascus met an ambassador sent by Pandyan King to Caesar Augustus, Strabo XV.1-73.
• c. 1-100 – The Periplus of the Erythraean Sea gives a detailed description of early Chera and Pandya kingdom and mentions Tamil country as ‘Damirica’
• c. 77 and 140 Greco-Roman writers Pliny the Elder and Ptolemy mention Madurai ruled by Pandyan.
• Considering he vast stretches of time involved, it is difficult to determine which influenced the other, Tamil or Kannada,despite fanatics claiming one way or the other.

In my opinion,as I said to Bharathitheertha Swami of Sringeri Peeta, our Father Tongue is Sanskrit mother tongue based of geographical location and it is best we enjoy these languages and follow Sanatana Dharma.

Squabbles are for the Immature.

I am yet to study Telugu and Godavari Valley.

I am sure more surprises will be in store.

Citation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satavahana_dynasty

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_South_India

https://www.quora.com/Which-is-the-oldest-language-between-Kannada-and-Tamil-What-is-the-proof

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kannada

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronology_of_Tamil_history

Related articles

• Kings List India By Puranas Validated
• Gondswana Proves How Sanatana Dharma Spread
• Tamil Culture Part Of Sanatana Dharma

One of the strengths of Sanatana Dharma is its Oral tradition of transmitting texts, both Philosophical and Scientific.

But the sheer volume defies imagination.

Ancient scripts, Origin

“With Thirty Million  Manuscripts existing even today,Sanskrit is the oldest Language of the world and the Rig Veda which is in Sanskrit is the oldest literature of the world”

.Thirty Million Manuscripts Seven Hundred Poetic Meters  Sanskrit

Is it possible for any race to transmit such a large volume only by Oral tradition?

Could the people of Ancient India, of Sanatana Dharma, Bharatvarsha Read and Write?

Western Scholars think it s possible and declare that the ancient Indians had Super Memories!

Evolution of South Asian Scripts.

For this is convenient to deny at a later stage and declare that such a feat is impossible and hence the such oral traditions are a myth and hence can be dismissed as interpolations and a latest date may be assigned to them

The fact that one finds Sanskrit Brahmi, and Tamil Brahmi were found in Indus Valley civilizations..

This at the latest is dated at 3000 to 5000 BC

And the finding of Kannada Brahmi in Karnataka.

And Tamil Sangam Literature speaks of the Vedas, its texts.

Consider the Mathematical , Biological, Astronomy,Genetics, texts which involve writing of the highest order.

Imagine building, for example,The Thanjavur Big Temple or any other Temples and structures which could not  have been built with ot written calculations and drawings

And,

‘western scholars of Indology said:
“Entire absense of writing, reading, paper, or pen in vedas, or during Brahamana period and complete silence in Sutra period(When art of writing was beginning to be known), the whole Literature of India was preserved in oral tradition only”

Weber who wants to bring all history to later than Biblical period admits:
“Europe has 10,000 sanskrit texts and considering that we have tens of thousands which the parsimony of karma has hithherto withheld form Museums and libraries of Europe, what a memory must have been their!.”

Indian super Memory
The Immemorial practice with students of sanskrit literature has been to commit to memory the various subjects of their study and this practice of oral tradition has preserved the ancient Vedic texts. This fact has led Western Indology scholars to surmise that writing was unknown in the earliest period of Indian Civilization and that the later forms of the alphabet were not of pure Indian growth.

So According to these Western Indology Scholars, Indians have Super Human Memory. By Which they can not only memorize scores of documents, but they can also transmit through generations. Wow!, Who said science fiction is 20th century Stuff.

We are looking at this question. Did writing existed prior to Mauryas?

Panini
Panini is best known grammarian of India. Muller says that there is no single term in the panini terminology which presupposes the existence of writing. So we go to find out.

Panini almost singlehandendly brought together the classical sanskrit grammer. He mentions Grantha the equivalent for written or bound book in the later days in India. For Max Muller Granta mean simply a composition, which is handed down the generation by oral tradition. In short Panini is illiterate and somehow he produced one of the most eloborate and scientific set grammer ever known to mankind till today.Remember Panini has given 3996 rules for Classical Sanskrit Grammar.

Writing in Literature
Classical Sanskrit Literature
The direct reference to writing classical sanskrit according to Indologists in literature are found to be in the Dharmasutra of Vasistha, which Dr.Buhler thinks, was composed around 8th century BC. Some scholars will assign this work 4th century BC as well.Astadhyayi of panini contains such compounds as Lipikara and Libikara, which evidently mean writer. The date of panini is not fixed, prof.Goldstucker puts him 8th century BC, others put him in 4 the century BC. The Vedic works contain technical terms like aksara, kanda, patala, grantha and the like, which is clear indication of writing. Of course Indology scholars wont accept them.

Buddhist age
There are quite a large number of passages in the SriLanka’s Tipitaka, which bear witness to an acquaintance with writing and to its extensive use.

At the time when Buddhist cannons were composed. Lekha and Lekhaka are mentioned in the Bhikkhu pacittiya and Bhikkhuni pacittiya.

In the Jatakaas, constant meniton is made of letters being written. The Jatakas know of proclamations.

Epic Age
Epics contains archaic expressions such as likh, Lekha, Lakhaka, Lekhana but not lipi, which some scholars think is foriegn orgin. So Writing was known in Epic Age.

Vedic Literature
We find clear evidence in wide spread use of writing in the vedic period. Written documents are mentioned as legal documents.

Scripts
Brahmi
The earliest surviving written record other than Indus script is Piprawa vase inscription discovered by Colonel Claxton peppe. This Inscription is a prakrit before the prakrits of magadhi or sourasheni developed, so differently interpreted. This is dated to early part of 5th century BC.

Next comes Sohaura Copper plate , which Dr.Smith puts before Ashoka by 50 years.

The Inscriptions of Ashoka is all over India. This shows that Writing was well used in Royal courts and the writting was well understood by common people.

Dr.Weber came with view that Brahmi is borrowed from South Arab tribe. But this has been dismissed by Dr. Buhler.

Buhler Identified certain Brahmi letters were identical to 9th-7th BC century Inscriptions found in Assyria. One third of 23 Alphabets are identical to Brahmi letters. This Indologists suggestions that the Brahmi letters were derived from these letters from all Indology scholars including Buhler. But we have to note that the tribes in question are belonging belonging to Indian Tribe. This script traveled from India to Middle east.

Jain Stupa unearthed at the Kankali Tila site of Mathura regarded by Vincent Simith as the oldest known stupa then (Before Indus valley sites were discovered). Smith dated it to be 600 BC for erection. Dr.Fuhrer who supervised the excavation found out that it contained a inscription Deva Stupa in a script, so old that it was forgotten.

Indus Script
Indus Script has 250-500 characters. Some of the Seals seems to be Bilingual with Indus script next to the symbols. Seeming symbols to be for traders from other languages. So Indus valley is literate culture.”

So the Ancient Indians knew Reading and writing and transmitted Vedic Texts orally to ensure that they are not destroyed.

Citation and reference..

http://controversialhistory.blogspot.in/2012/11/was-ancient-india-literate-super-human.html

Image of ancient scripts Credit.

http://webspace.ship.edu/cgboer/evolalpha.html

http://www.ancientscripts.com/brahmi.html

One finds references to South India, called Dravida Desa during the Santana Dharma Period

There are references to in Tami literature and Sanskrit Texts, Vedas,Ramayan, Mahabharata,Eighteen Purans and in later Sanskrit and regional literary works.

Regional literature refers to Sanatana Dharma and Ithihsas in detail, e it Tamil, Telugu,Kannda,Bangla, Oriya.

Evidence abounds that a healthy trade between the people of the south  and the north flourished since the Vedic period.

Now the question is how did these people communicate with each other in view of the fact that India has multiple languages and dialects.

‘

There are 22 major languages in India, written in 13 different scripts, with over 720 dialects’  .https://www.justlanded.com/english/India/India-Guide/Language/Languages-in-India

‘According to Census of India of 2001, India has 122 major languages and 1599 other languages. However, figures from other sources vary, primarily due to differences in definition of the terms “language” and “dialect”. The 2001 Census recorded 30 languages which were spoken by more than a million native speakers and 122 which were spoken by more than 10,000 people’ -wiki

Sanskrit is said to be oldest language being dated about 5000 years back.

( I had written this my not be correct and Sanskrit might be much older along with Tamil, an ancient language of India. million year old Tamil  Site near Chennai ,Tamil Nadu with advanced Tamil civilization.And Tami quotes Vedas and Vedas in turn quote Tamil and Tamil Kings.Please read my articles on this)

The languages spoken in the south and even among the north indi differ.

Sanskrit is accepted in all the regions though!

Groups in India spoke  different languages.

Yet they were in intimate contact with the Sanatana Dharma People whose language was Sanskrit.

Not all groups were familiar with Sanskrit.To compound the issue there was Vedic Sanskrit and Panini Sanskrit ( Ashtdhyayi)

‘

Vedic Sanskrit is the language of the Vedas, a large collection of hymns, incantations, and religio-philosophical discussions which form the earliest religious texts in India and the basis for much of the Hindu religion. Modern linguists consider the metrical hymns of the Rigveda to be the earliest. The hymns preserved in the Rigveda were preserved by oral tradition alone over several centuries before the introduction of writing, the oldest among them predating the introduction of Brahmi by as much as a millennium .^{[citation needed]}

The end of the Vedic period is marked by the composition of the Upanishads, which form the concluding part of the Vedic corpus in the traditional compilations, dated to roughly 500 BCE. It is around this time thatSanskrit began the transition from a first language to a second language of religion and learning, marking the beginning of the Classical period’

And Tamil a past of not less than 20,000 years at a conservative estimate..the excavation of Poompuhar confirms the date.please read my article on this.

There are references to the effect in Sanskrit Texts, Mahabharata  and Ramayana to Tamils.

Udiyan Cheralathn, a Tamil King provided food to both the armies during the Mahabharata battle.

Shiva is considered to be the founder of Tamil language.

Agstya, Subrahmany are associated with Tamil intimately.

Lord Krishna and Arjun married Tamil Pandyan Princesses;Krishna had a daughter and had her married to a Pandyan prince.;Arjuna had a son from south.

Sahadeva went on a pilgrimage to south and Balarama came to south and worshiped Subrahmanya.and of course, Parshurma who founded the present Kerala State.

I can go on adding in this vein.

But the issue is, how did these people communicate with each other?

The common thread seems to be Brahmi.

Image Credit.

By Anonymous – Commentary: The Devimahatmya cropped from http://www.nb.no/baser/schoyen/5/5.20/ms2174.jpg; taken from: w:en:Image:Devimahatmya Sanskrit MS Nepal 11c.jpg, Public Domain, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=191227

‘

Brahmi (brāhmī) is the modern name given to one of the oldest writing systems used in South and Central Asia during the final centuries BCE and the early centuries CE. Like its contemporary, Kharoṣṭhī, which was used in what is now Afghanistanand Pakistan, it is an abugida.

The best-known Brahmi inscriptions are the rock-cut edicts of Ashoka in north-central India, dated to 250–232 BCE. The script was deciphered in 1837 by James Prinsep, an archaeologist, philologist, and official of the East India Company.^[1] The origin of the script is still much debated, with current Western academic opinion generally agreeing (with some exceptions) that Brahmi was derived from or at least influenced by one or more contemporary Semitic scripts, but a current of opinion in India favors the idea that it is connected to the much older and as-yet undeciphered Indus script…

The Brahmi script diversified into numerous local variants, classified together as the Brahmic scripts. Dozens of modern scripts used across South Asia have descended from Brahmi, making it one of the world’s most influential writing traditions. One survey found 198 scripts that ultimately derive from it.

The script was associated with its own Brahmi numerals, which ultimately provided the graphic forms for the Hindu–Arabic numeral system now used through most of the world.’

Tamil Brahmi was discovered in Harappa and there is a Million year old Brahmi script found in Karnatka, Kannada Brahmi.

Brahmi script, though associated with Sanskrit was also used in other parts of India with local variations.

We have another,Brahui, spoken by Tamils and by the people of North Weaste India!

‘Brahui /brəˈhuːi/ (Brahui: براہوئی) is a Dravidian language spoken by the Brahui people in the central Balochistan region ofPakistan and Afghanistan, and by expatriate Brahui communities in Qatar, United Arab Emirates, Iraq, and Iran.It is isolated from the nearest Dravidian-speaking neighbour population of South India by a distance of more than 1,500 kilometres (930 mi). Kalat,Mastung, and Khuzdar districts of Balochistan are predominantly Brahui-speaking.

Image credit.

By BishkekRocks – Base map template: demis.nl. Sorce for map data: Language families and branches, languages and dialects in A Historical Atlas of South Asia, Oxford University Press. New York 1992., CC BY-SA 3.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=1593835

Tamil Chola King, ancestor of Rama, who built the Thiruvellarai Temple, near Sri Rangam, ruled from the present Pakistan region.

Sibi Ruled from Pakistan

We have yet another common Link language,after the advent of Buddhism.

It is Pali .

Pali is the Middle Indo-Aryan language in which the Theravada Buddhist scriptures and commentaries are preserved. Pali is believed by the Theravada tradition to be the same language as Magadhi, but modern scholars believe this to be unlikely.^{[citation needed]} Pali shows signs of development from several underlying prakrits as well as some Sanskritisation.

The prakrit of the North-western area of India known as Gāndhāra has come to be called Gāndhārī. A few documents written in the Kharoṣṭhi script survive including a version of the Dhammapada.

Considering these facts it seems logical to conclude that  .apart from Sanskrit, Prakrit,Brahui and Pali were used as common link languages of India since Vedic Times.

They have changed during the course of Time.

References and Citations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahui_language

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_history_of_the_Indian_subcontinent#Proto-Indo-Aryan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmi_script

A well preserved Mummy of an Iceman was found in Otzi Alps, Italian-Austrian Alps about twenty five years ago.

Scientists and Archaeologists  dated the mummy ,

‘ around 3,300 BCE, more precisely between 3359 and 3105 BCE, with a 66 percent chance that he died between 3239 and 3105 BCE’.

{ Consider the facts.Rama’s Empire covered the  present Italy/Austria.

The Mitanni Empire covered what is now known as Iraq, Turkey Syria, Lebanon,Egypt and included Italy.

They were the ancestors of these people.

Mitanni were the ancestors of the Egyptians as well.

“The first Mitanni king was Sutarna I (good sun). He was followed by Baratarna I (or Paratarna great sun), Parasuksatra(ruler with axe),…. Saustatar (Sauksatra, son of Suksatra, the good ruler), Artadama (abiding in cosmic law)..Tushratta (Dasaratha), and finally Matiwazza (Mativaja, whose wealth is thought) during whose lifetime the Mitanni state appears to have become a vassal to Assyria”. Subhash Kak traces the ‘arna’ syllable in the names of the kings to ‘araNi’ (अरणि) meaning ‘sun’

https://ramanan50.wordpress.com/2015/06/12/hindu-kings-of-iraq-turkey-syria-lebanon-egypt-italy-mitanni-empire/

Sharada Devi in Sardinia.

the term yavana denoted an Ionian Greek”.(3) On pages 83–5 she makes mention of early Indian literature where foreigners were dubbed “yavana”, and points to an Asokan inscription where a border-people is given this appellation. In central and western India, she says, Yavana “figure prominently as donors to the Buddhist Sangha”.

Considering these facts it is not surprising to find the name Sharada , called as Sarda in Sardinia, Italy.

Scholars may pursue the issue.

https://ramanan50.wordpress.com/2015/05/16/sharada-devi-in-in-sardinia-italy-greek-hindu-connection/

Please read my other articles on Sanatana Dharma Mittani, Sumerian, Minoan, and other ancient civilizations like Mayas and Incas.

And Immigration of world population from India.

The sounds reproduced by the scientists of The Otzi Mummy  sound closer to Indian languages , more like a Dravidian language, when on hears the pronunciation of long sounds, AA, EE, AE”

Taking into account the archaeological etymological  and historical eveidence one may safely say that this Otzi Mummy Find corroborates the theory that Hindus were spread throughout the world and the Religion was Sanatana Dharma.

‘Scientists hailing from Bolzano’s General Hospital, Italy, used CT scans to produce a model of the ice mummy’s mouth, throat, and vocal cords. This allowed them to create a digital reconstruction—or the “best possible approximation”—of Otzi’s voice….

‘ The mummy was found in September 1991 in the Ötztal Alps, hence the nickname “Ötzi”, near the Similaun mountain and Hauslabjoch on the border between Austria and Italy.He is Europe’s oldest known natural human mummy, and has offered an unprecedented view of Chalcolithic Europeans. His body and belongings are displayed in the South Tyrol Museum of Archaeology in Bolzano, South Tyrol, Italy….

“We can’t say we have reconstructed Otzi’s original voice, because we miss some crucial information from the mummy,” Rolando Fustos, the study’s lead researcher, explained to Rossella Lorenzi from Discovery News.

“But with two measurements, the length of both the vocal tract and the vocal cords, we have been able to recreate a fairly reliable approximation of the mummy’s voice. This is a starting point for further research.”

He added: “The vocal cords are the source of the vocal sound, but the main contribution to it is given by the selective filtering accomplished by the vocal tract configuration.”

“Of course, we don’t know what language he spoke 5,000 years ago,” said fellow researcher Francesco Avanzini. “But we should be able to recreate the timbre of his vowel sounds and, I hope, even create simulation of consonants.”

Reconstructing those vowel sounds presented its own set of challenges. Because MRI scans would have caused Otzi damage, the team opted to use CT scans. Unfortunately, CT scans could only measure the mummy’s internal structure.

Also adding unnecessary complications was Otzi’s position when he died.

“We had to deal with Otzi’s position, whose arm is covering his throat,” stated Avanzini. “For our project this is the worst position you can imagine. Moreover, the hyoid bone—or tongue-bone—was party absorbed and dislocated.”

The scientists used special software to digitally maneuver Otzi’s arm away from his throat, as well as erect his skull. This allowed them to create a model of the vocal tract’s entire physical structure.

According to researcher Piero Cosi, the team also used mathematical models, and software that “simulates the way the vocal tract works,” to reconstruct information about the throat tissue’s composition and thickness, and the vocal cords’ density and tension.

The combined data convinced them that the frequency of Otzi’s voice was between 100 and 150 Hz—not too different from the average modern male.

The team presented the vocalizations at a congress—commemorating the discovery of Otzi in South Tyrol’s Otztal Alps 25 years ago—held at the European Research Academy (EURAC) Institute for Mummies and the Iceman located in Bolzano.

“This is a new, interesting aspect on Otzi’s research that deserves to be taken into consideration for further research,” stated the EURAC Institute for Mummies and the Iceman director, Albert Zink.

Genetic analysis

Ötzi’s full genome has been sequenced; the report on this was published on 28 February 2012.The Y-DNA of Ötzi belongs to asubclade of G defined by the SNPs M201, P287, P15, L223 and L91 (G-L91, ISOGG G2a2b, former “G2a4”). He was not typed for any of the subclades downstreaming from G-L91. G-L91 is now mostly found in South Corsica.

Analysis of his mitochondrial DNA showed that Ötzi belongs to the K1 subclade, but cannot be categorized into any of the three modern branches of that subclade (K1a, K1b or K1c). The new subclade has provisionally been named K1ö for Ötzi. Multiplex assay study was able to confirm that the Iceman’s mtDNA belongs to a previously unknown European mtDNA clade with a very limited distribution among modern data sets.

By autosomal DNA, Ötzi is most closely related to southern Europeans, especially to geographically isolated populations like Corsicans and Sardinians.

DNA analysis also showed him at high risk of atherosclerosis and lactose intolerance, with the presence of the DNA sequence of Borrelia burgdorferi, possibly making him the earliest known human with Lyme disease. A later analysis suggested the sequence may have been a different Borrelia species.

A 2012 paper by paleoanthropologist John Hawks suggests that Ötzi had a higher degree of Neanderthal ancestry than modern Europeans.

In October 2013, it was reported that 19 modern Tyrolean men were related to Ötzi. Scientists from the Institute of Legal Medicine at Innsbruck Medical University had analysed the DNA of over 3,700 Tyrolean male blood donors and found 19 who shared a particular genetic mutation with the 5,300-year-old man.

Blood

In May 2012, scientists announced the discovery that Ötzi still had intact blood cells. These are the oldest complete human blood cells ever identified. In most bodies this old, the blood cells are either shrunken or mere remnants, but Ötzi’s have the same dimensions as living red blood cells and resembled a modern-day sample.

H. pylori analysis

In 2016, researchers reported on a study from the extraction of twelve samples from the gastrointestinal tract of Ötzi to analyze the origins of the Helicobacter pylori in his gut.^[The H. pylori strain found in his gastrointestinal tract was, surprisingly, the hpAsia2 strain, a strain today found primarily in South Asian and Central Asian populations, with extremely rare occurrences in modern European populations. The strain found in Ötzi’s gut is most similar to three modern individuals from Northern India; the strain itself is, of course, older than the modern Northern Indian straince

References and Citations.

http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/582568/scitech/science/scientists-approximate-otzi-the-stone-age-mummy-s-voice

http://www.dayofarchaeology.com/spend-a-day-at-your-museum/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96tzi#Genetic_analysis

Image credit.

Fair use, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?curid=10928855

Naturalistic reconstruction of Ötzi – South Tyrol Museum of Archaeology

Filed under: Hinduism Tagged: Dravidian Languages, Indian languages, Italy, Italy India, Museum Bolazano, Otzi Iceman, Otzi Man, Otzi Mummy, Tamil

The plethora of Languages in India is mind boggling.

22 Official languages( some estimate to be 25) and 720 Dialects( some estimate 2000) !

( http://translation-blog.trustedtranslations.com/india-the-country-with-more-than-2000-dialects-2011-10-18.html

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_history_of_the_Indian_subcontinent)

The unraveling of the History of these languages is very difficult and calls for an understanding of the Cultural undercurrent running through all these languages.

Regions may vary,languages and dialects may vary,but the ethos of Sanatana Dharma straddles them like a colossus,albeit with slight modifications as in Tamil,though the core remains the same.

Looking through the prism of Foreign Culture,would obfuscate the study for to classify and assign them dates without taking Sanatana Dharma into account ,will result in arriving at incorrect conclusions.

There,again, we have the myth,now debunked Theory of Aryan Invasion.

This helped the Invaders to divide the country and enaled them to rule India.

So, a grand design was worked out.

Take Indian languages,without taking Sanatana Dharma into account,underlying cultural unity among these languages,refer and link these languages to countries,which are now independent of India,like Afghanistan,Iran,Iraq,forgetting the the fact that Bharatavarsha extended throughout the globe,some 5000 years ago.

(Please read my articles on the spread and Sanatana Dharma, under ‘Hinduism’ or google the country plus Sanatana Dharma +ramanan 50.)

So for the common man the message was that,

There are two major Languages,Sanskrit and Tamil,

The other languages were derived out of either of these or a mixture of two.

This makes the job of misinformation easier.

One,you can divide people on the basis of Language and another,you can date individual languages as you please,meaning assign them much later dates!

What are the facts,when one takes the parameters of Sanatana Dharma,its pervasive nature throughout the world and an independent analysis of each language in conjunction with Sanatana Dharma and the history of a language based on its history and its Dialects?

1.There ,my research over eight years on Sanatana Dharma,its presence thorughout the world civilizations,my study of Indian languages’s History, compel me to arrive at different sets of facts on Indian languages and their dates.

2.As records stand now, Sanskrit and Tamil seem to be oldest of the languages of India.

3.The dates od Sanskrit and Tamil stretch far back in time and it is difficult to say which one wzs earlier,for, A million year old site Athirambakkam,near Chennai,Tamil Nadu,India had an advanced Tamil civilization znd this civilization quotes Vedas.

And Vedas refer Tamil/Tamils.

And recent excavations of Poompuhar,Tamil Nadu dates the city 11,000 Year ago!

Yet the Tamil is assigned a date of around,3000 BC!

The researches into Lemuria/Kumari Kandam, the home of Tamils indicate Kumari Kandam around 200,000 years ago!

At worst ,you can date Tamil,at 20,000 years ago.

4.Telugu.

Telugu is dated around  1500 BC.

But people forget Godavari is one of the ancient rivers of India and Godavari civilization was also a cradle of civilization.

Telugu is mentioned in Ramayana.

And Tamil Sangam literature refers to Telugu.

And Tamil Sangam is dated,by the western orientalists at 3000 BC.

So even by their reckoning Telugu should be at least 3000 years old.

In fact,based on Indian texts,it is at least 5000 years old.

5.Kannada is said to be 2500 years old.

Again Tamil texts refer Kannada and Ramayana refers to the area,Kishkinda,Rama’s sister was married to Rishyashrunga from Sringeri,Karnataka.

So Kannada can be dated at least 5000 years ago.

9.Bengali,Marathi,Gujarati, and other languages of regions around Vindhyas and beyond also date back to at least 5000 years,

becasuse they evolved from Prakrit,Brahmi,Sanskrit,which are dated at 5000 years ago or earlier.

The differnces among these languages is due to the fact that they descended from Brahmi,which had 11 types.

All the regions in India are described by Valmiki in his Ramayana and Vyasa also refers them in Mahabharata.

And all the eighteen puranas speak of all these areas and dialects.

So, none of the Indian Languages are younger than 5000 years.

I received a comment on my article ‘All Indian Languages are over 5000 years old’ thus.

‘This Venkat Ramanan guy would be laughed at any reputed  school of linguistics in the world. The headline is very misleading… All languages of India are not 5000 years old. There are only 4 major language families of India. Indo-Aryan, Dravidian, SinoTIbetan and Austro-Asiatic. Sanskrit, the mother of all the Indo-Aryan languages is indeed 5000 years old, but it is laughable to suggest that Hindi, Punjabi, Marathi, Bengali are also 5000 years old. These languages, i.e. Hindi, Punjabi etc. all started off as local dialects of Sanskrit and over the millenia morphed into the languages that you hear today. Likewise, ancient Dravidian morphed over the 4-5000 years into what we now hear as Tamil, Telugu, Kannada etc. The Austro-Asiatic languages are represented by Ho, Munda and Santali in India ( I don’t know their antiquity, but it has got to be ancient). SinoTibetan family of languages are spoken in the North East of India and yes SinoTibetan ( Ancestor of Han Chinese, Burmese etc is indeed 5K years old). If one wants to thump their chest in some exercise in petty nationalism, so be it; but it can hardly be called “Scholarship”. ‘

1.Unraveling the misinformaton about India, is ‘petty Nationalism’ be it’

2.I did not present more information on the article,as I thought it would become heavy and expected my readers to check the languages’ history and Sanatana Dharma,which my readers generally do.

Now let me on the Dravidian,Proto Dravidian,Indo Iranian,Indo Asiatic,Indo Australian group of languages.

Before proceeding further,it must be remebered that languages evolve from Dialects.

It is generally agreed that India had Brahmi and Prakrit as Dialects initially.

Sanskrit ,Prakrit,Tamil Brahmi,Tamil are to be taken into account.

Prakrit was called a colloquial language,spoken by ordinary people,while Sanskrit was spoken by Scholars and was used more for Literature and Philosophy.

There is Sanskrit Brahmi,which is considered as older and it dates back over 5000 years,and a Dialect takes much longer to evolve.

Now Sanskrit is dated( again deliberately) to 5000 BC.

Even this date should push Sanskrit Brahmi by at least 2000 years before Sanskrit,that means 7000 years ago!

2.We have Tamil Brahmi as well and as Tamil is assigned, at least,a date of 3000 BC,Tamil Brahmi must be dated 5000 BC.

3.Kannada Brahmi is found in  rock in Karnataka and it is dated a million years ago.(please read my article on this)

Dravidian Family/Proto Dravidian Family.

‘the Proto-Dravidian language is not itself attested in the historical record. Its modern conception is based solely on reconstruction. It is suggested that the language was spoken in the 4th millennium BCE, and started disintegrating into various branches around 3rd millennium BCE.   (     https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Dravidian_language  )
‘Though some argue that the Dravidian languages may have been brought to India by migrations in the fourth or third millennium BCE

migrations in the fourth or third millennium BCE or even earlier,the Dravidian languages cannot easily be connected to any other language, and they could well be indigenous to India.

Epigraphically the Dravidian languages have been attested since the 2nd century BCE. Only two Dravidian languages are exclusively spoken outside India: Brahui in  Pakistan,and Dhangar,a dialect of Kurukh, in Nepal.Dravidian place names along the Arabian Sea Coast and the Dravidian grammatical influence such as clusivity in the Indo-Aryan languages, namely Marathi, Konkani, Gujarati, Marwari, and Sindhi, suggest that Dravidian languages were once spoken more widely across the Indian subcontinent. ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dravidian_languages)

Tamil heads this group.Tamil Brahmi must have been there atleast 2000 earlier to reach its full bloom.

Note that these Dravidian languages were spoken ‘ Dravidian languages were once spoken more widely across the Indian subcontinent’ as far away in NorthWest of India.

Tamil Brahmi script has been found on Indus Valley civilization.

Elamite and Akkadian languages forerunner of Sumerian trace their origins to Tamil.Please check my articles on this.

This places Tamil around 5000 years ago and its pervasive nature throughout.

Indo Iranian Family.

‘The Indo-Iranian languages derive from a reconstructed common proto-language, called Proto-Indo-Iranian.

The oldest attested Indo-Iranian languages are Vedic Sanskrit (ancient Indo-Aryan), Older and Younger Avestan and Old Persian (ancient Iranian languages). A few words from another Indo-Aryan language (see Indo-Aryan superstrate in Mitanni) are attested in documents from the ancient Mitanni kingdom in northern Mesopotamia and Syria and the Hittite kingdom in Anatolia.’

Look at the spread of Sanskrit ,to Mesopotamia and Anatolia!

‘The Indo-European languages are a language family of several hundred related languages and dialects. There are about 445 living Indo-European languages, according to the estimate by Ethnologue, with over two-thirds (313) of them belonging to the Indo-Iranian branch.

Indo-European Family traces its history to Indo Iranian and Indo Iranian to Vedic Sanskrit!

Afroasiatic languages have their origins in Akkadian,Elamite and they are traced back to Tamil/Sanskrit.

( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afroasiatic_languages  )

Cameroonians speak Tamil even today.

Indo Semitic Group.

The Indo-Semitic hypothesis maintains that a genetic relationship exists between Indo-European and Semitic — that is, that the Indo-European and Semitic language families descend from a prehistoric language ancestral to them both. This theory has never been widely accepted by contemporary linguists in modern times, although historically it has had a number of supporting advocates and arguments, particularly in the 19th and 20th centuries.

‘According to Carleton T. Hodge (1998:318), a leading specialist of Afroasiatic, “The positing of a genetic connection between Indo-European and Semitic goes back at least as far as Richard Lepsius (1836)”.

The arguments presented for a relationship between Indo-European and Semitic in the 19th century were commonly rejected by Indo-Europeanists, including W.D. Whitney (1875) and August Schleicher.

The culmination of this first phase in Indo-Semitic studies was Hermann Möller’s comparative dictionary of Indo-European and Semitic, first published in Danish in 1909 (but usually cited in its German edition of 1911).

Sino Tibetan,Indo Australian languages go back to Sanskrit/Tamil..

So, it is not ‘Petty Nationalism’ but a statement of facts when I write on India,its History,People and its languages

Filed under: Hinduism, Language Tagged: Brahmi, Indian languages, Indo Asiatic Families, Indo European Families, Indo Iranian language families, Indo semitic group, Prakrit, sanskrit, Tamil, Tamil Brahmi

The relationship between Sanskrit and Tamil is interesting.

Both of them are quiet ancient and each quote the other,leaving one stranded in his efforts to find which preceded the other.

While there are similarities between Sanskrit and Tamil,there are also striking differences between the two in their Grammar and Spoken Form

Shall write in detail on this.

Now I have come across reference in the first Grammar Book of Tamil,dated around 3000 BC,about Tamil Grammar and Sanskrit Grammar. ( I date Tamil much earlier)

As mentioned earlier,there are vital differences between Tamil and Sanskrit Grammar.

The Sanskrit Grammar was codified by Panini, around 400 BCE.

It is called Ashtadyayi.

However the earlier Grammar was a part of Vedangas(limbs of the Vedas).

That was called Vyakarana.

‘Panini and Yaska, two celebrated ancient scholars of Vyakarana, are both dated to several centuries prior to the start of the common era, likely the 5th-century BCE.However, both of them cite prior scholars and texts, which though lost to history, imply that the field of Vyakarana was an established and developed science of language before them'( wiki- vyakarana)

Panini did not found Sanskrit Grammar,he codified it.

There are references that there were Ten Grammar works before Panini.

Panini refers these Grammarians.

‘Apisali, 

Kasyapa, 

Gargya, 

Galava, 

Cakravarmana,

 Bharadvaja, 

Sakatayana, 

Sakalya, 

Senaka and 

Sphotayana.’ (  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vyākaraṇa )

Tholkappiyam,the Tamil Grammar was written by Tholkappiyar.

He says in Tholkaapiyam ,while describing himself as the author of Tholkappiyam,that he leant Vedas from his Guru,Preceptor,who was a learned Brahmin.

He adds that there was a Grammar Work called ‘Aindhiram’.

And as Tholkappiyar’s Guru was a Scholar of Vedas,which is in Sanskrit, is it that Aindhiram is a Sanskrit Work?

Agastya could not have written Aindhiram in Tamil as the First Tamil Grammar Agathiyam was by Agastya,which has been lost?

Why write two books on the same subject?

Or ,as Agastya is a schloar in both Tamil and Sanskrit,Aindhiram could be in Tamil?

I am unable to answer,as Tholkappiyar is not specific about the Language of Aindhiram.

It can be taken as a Tamil work, as Tholkaapiyar says that he is embarking on Tamil Grammar Work?

On the other hand,the term Aindhiram/n is the Thathidaanda form of Sanskrit Grammar.

Janaka’s daughter is Janaki,

Dasaratha,s son is Dasarathy(Rama)

In the same vein Aindhiram is after Indra,? Indra,Aindhira?

This ,of course,is lost.

Tholkappiyar says that he had studied the ‘Aindhiram’ in detail.

As Tholkappiyar has learnt this from his Guru,A Brahmin,who was well versed in the Vedas.

‘அறம் கரை நாவின் நான்மறை முற்றிய‌

அதங்கோட்டு ஆசாற்கு அரில் தபத் தெரிந்து
மயங்கா மரபின் எழுத்து முறை காட்டி
மல்கு நீர் வரைப்பின் ஐந்திரம் நிறைந்த‌
தொல்காப்பியன் எனத் தன் பெயர் தோற்றிப்
பல் புகழ் நிறுத்த படிமையோனே..

‘Me,Thokappiyan,who learnt the Aindhiram Grammar,which describes the functions and rules Word’

‘நிலம் தரு திருவின் பாண்டியன் அவையத்து
அறம் கரை நாவின் நான்மறை முற்றிய‌
அதங்கோட்டு ஆசாற்கு அரில் தபத் தெரிந்து,’

‘I have learnt this from the one,who is well versed in The Vedas,in the presence of a Pandyan King’

Who this Guru could be?

Who else ,but Agastya,the Sage who straddles Sanskrit and Tamil.

Apart from other works,Agastya,

‘He and his wife Lopamudra are the celebrated authors of hymns 1.165 to 1.191 in the Sanskrit text Rigveda and other Vedic literature.‘

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agastya

He is credited with founding Tamil language with Lord Shiva,during First Tamil Sangam.

Agastya was a Siddha and produced innumerable treatises on Yoga,Science,Metaphysics in Tamil

His primary disciples were,

Bhogar,

Therayar, and

Tholkappiyar.

‘Rishi Agastya is considered as the first and foremost Siddha (knowledge and accomplishments),

and therefore the guru of many Siddhars. Another name for Rsi Agastya is Kurumuni (short muni). Rishi Agastya made pioneering contributions to the field of Ayurveda (alternative medicine) and Jyotish (Vedic Astrology particularly Nadi Astrology). Rishi Agastya lived for over 5000 years, and one of his medicinal preparations, Boopathi Kuligai, was so powerful that it could even bring the dead back to life. Two of his disciples were Therayar and Tholkappiar carried this knowledge forward for him.’

(http://blessingsonthenet.com/indianculture/sections/37/maharishi-agastya)

It is probable that the earlier Grammar,Aindhiram, was written by Agastya and Tholkappiyar learnt it from Agastya.

And this work could be a Grammar in Sanskrit.

There is a poem,which ascribes Aindhiram to Lord Shiva.

This can be seen in the featured image of this article.

Mamuni Maayon can also refer Lord Shiva.

Shiva is reported to have founded Tamil Language with Agastya.

The Tholkapiyam Poem .

‘வட வேங்கடம் தென் குமரி

ஆயிடைத்
தமிழ் கூறும் நல் உலகத்து
வழக்கும் செய்யுளும் ஆயிரு முதலின்
எழுத்தும் சொல்லும் பொருளும் நாடிச்
செந்தமிழ் இயற்கை சிவணிய நிலத்தொடு
முந்து நூல் கண்டு முறைப்பட எண்ணிப்
புலம் தொகுத்தோனே போக்கு அறு பனுவல்
நிலம் தரு திருவின் பாண்டியன் அவையத்து
அறம் கரை நாவின் நான்மறை முற்றிய‌
அதங்கோட்டு ஆசாற்கு அரில் தபத் தெரிந்து
மயங்கா மரபின் எழுத்து முறை காட்டி
மல்கு நீர் வரைப்பின் ஐந்திரம் நிறைந்த‌
தொல்காப்பியன் எனத் தன் பெயர் தோற்றிப்
பல் புகழ் நிறுத்த படிமையோனே..

*There is another view.

‘Aindhiram is an ancient book on the science of vasthu sathra and tamil grammer – connected with Tholkappiyam  .It had two volumes.Unfortunately the volume one which deals with the phenetics of tamil grammer associated with Tholkappiyam (this volume of book was called ‘ANIDRA’) is lost in the course of history ,all that is remaining with us is an scientific book on vasthu sathra.

Who is Mamumi Mayan?
Mamuni mayan was a famous sidhar ,multi talented geek ,architect , ancient scientist  and the author of Aindhiram..he appears in Ramayana and Mahabharatha also..he is the son of Diti and Kashyapa (a sabdhamaharishi)..Mayan was very close with pandiya king and helped him build the Pandiya mahasabha (which was supposed to be so grand with lot of cool interiors ,it was one of the testimony of Pandiyas excellence in architecture-and the brain behind that brilliance was Mamuni Mayan…if I am right this mahasabha was destroyed by some invader ) 
P. S. Mayan was the father in law of Ravana, father of Mandodari…’

Mamuni Maayon can also refer Lord Shiva.

Shiva is reported to have founded Tamil Language with Agastya.

( https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-mystery-that-our-ancient-literary-work-Aindhiram-ஐந்திறம்-reveals-to-us )

I have written articles on Dravidas ,stating that,

They lived side by side the Sanatana Dharma,

Tamil Brahmi script is found in Indus valley civilisation,

Tamil King Sibi ruled from what is now NWFP in Pakistan,

Chera King Udhiyan Cheralaathan fed both the Kaurava and Pandya armies during the Mahabharatha War,

Lord Krishna attended Tamil Sangam,married a Pandyan Princess and had a daughter through her,

The children of Sage Viswamitra were banished by him to Dravida Desa,

Arjuna,Balarama and Sahadeva went on a Pilgrimage to Dravida Desa,

Lord Rama’s sister’s Rishyashrunga was from Sringeri,Karnataka,

Sage Gautama,after whom the river Godavari is named,was from Godavari valley,Anshra Pradesh,

There was a King Aryaman whose ancestry is traced to Manu,

Cholas were cousins of Solar,Ikshvahu Dynasty,to which Lord Rama belongs,

Cholas,Pandyas are referred to in Ramayana and Mahabharatha,

Manu’s daughter was married to a Dravidian King,

Manu was from Dravida desa and he meditated near Madagascar…..

What is interesting is that Brahui language is spoken in Balochisthan even today.

And it is a Dravidian language.

How come The Dravidian languages spoken in the south of India,about 1000 miles away is being spoken in Baluchisthan?

One theory is that this Brahui was from Central India.

Does it not mean that Dravidiian languages were spoken in Central India as well?

One may have to visit the Gondwana continent concept to clarify this.

Please read my article on Gondwana.

One must bear in mind that the landmass of India and the world were different.

When one studies the Dravidian literature in conjunction with Sanatana Dharma,one may uncover shocking facts.

Looks as though the Dravidian culture preceded Sanatana Dharma.

But this theory goes out of the window because Tamil literature quotes Vedas,Puranas,Ramayana and Mahabharatha and these texts quote Tamil/s!

One is stumped.

Add to this the excavation of a million year old site in Chennai,where traces of advanced Tamil civilization is found.

Poompuhar sites push the date of Tamils by 30,000 years.

More sites,numbering 293 in Vaigai River near Madurai confirm the antiquity as found in the other sites mentioned above.

My view on Brahui being present in Balochisthan is due to the presence of Tamils in these areas when kings from Tamil Nadu invaded them.

There are three kings who have been credited with invading North,not to speak about those who had friendly relations with the people of Sanatana Dharma.

They are,

Aryavarman,

Ariyappadaikadantha Nedunchezhiyan

Imayavaramban Neduncheralaathaan.

I am researching on who the first Tamil king ,who invaded The North of India.

I am reproducing some theories,one of which suggests Dravidian Invasion of India.

Shall examine this theory as well later.

‘The Brahui (Brahui: براہوئی,) or Brahvi people are a Pakistani ethnic group of about 2.2 million people with the vast majority found in Baluchistan, Pakistan.They are a small minority group in Afghanistan, where they are native, but they are also found through their diaspora in Middle Eastern states..

Brahvi^[4] /brəˈhuːiBrahui: براہوئی‎‎) is a Dravidian language spoken by the Baloch^{[citation needed]} and Brahvi people in the central Balochistan region of Pakistan and Afghanistan, and by expatriate Brahvi communities in Qatar, United Arab Emirates, Iraq, and Iran.It is isolated from the nearest Dravidian-speaking neighbour population of South India by a distance of more than 1,500 kilometres (930 mi). Kalat, Mastung Khuzdar and parts of Quetta districts of Balochistan are predominantly Brahvi-speaking…

Source. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahui_people

‘When one looks at the many similarities between certain Brahui words and words used in other Dravidian languages, the connection is clear. In addition to arisi and uru, a few more Brahui words that are clearly Dravidian in origin are listed below:

Today – Aino (Brahui), Innu (Tamil, Malayalam)

You – Ne (Brahui), Ne (Tamil, Malayalam)

Come – Baa (Brahui), Vaa (Tamil, Malayalam)

Snore – Khurkao (Brahui), Khurtai (Tamil)

Eye – Xan (Brahui), Kan (Tamil)

Stone – Xal (Brahui), Kal (Tamil)

Milk – Pal (Brahui), Pal (Tamil)

News – Haval (Brahui), Thahaval (Tamil)

For its numbering system, Brahui draws from a Dravidian source for two (irat akin to the Kannada eradu) and three (musit akin to the Tamil moonu and the Kannada mooru) but from four onwards, the words are clearly Indo-Aryan borrowings (char, paanch and so on). The Brahui word for one (asit) seems to have no connection with any other language. Owing to its long isolation from other Dravidian languages, Brahui morphology has drawn greatly from those around it. Some experts opine that only about 15% of its vocabulary is now Dravidian, with the remaining drawn from Balochi, Persian, Sindhi, Urdu and other languages in its vicinity. Brahui’s vowel system is drawn entirely from Baloch. But experts have also noted that Baloch words, too, have been drawn from Brahui. ..

Source. http://www.livemint.com/Sundayapp/lWCoIZ2K5dPycrhS1gk6nJ/A-slice-of-south-India-in-Balochistan.html

‘Some consider the Brahui tribe as a left behind relic group of the original Dravidian invaders. This view is supported by an eminent Dravidian linguist, M.S.Andronov (1980).

During the historical migration of the forebears of the modern Dravidians into India. the ancestors of the Brahuis were the first to separate from the bulk of the proto-Dravidian tribes moving to the south and south-east. “The Brahui language” [translated from the Russian by V. Korotky].

Source. https://www.quora.com/Why-is-the-Brahui-language-classified-as-a-Dravidian-language-Why-is-it-geographically-isolated-from-all-the-other-Dravidian-languages

Dravidians moved from Northwest of India into India.